Picture#1 64x53 cm 2370x1900 pix Picture#2 64x53 cm 2353x1971 pix Picture#3 100x73 cm 2370x1786 pix Picture#4 72.5x54 cm 2048x1517 pix
Picture#1 64x53 cm 4300x3600 pix HighRes Picture#2 64x53 cm 4300x3600 pix HighRes Picture#3 100x73 cm 4251x3203 pix HighRes Vincent van Gogh, 1886, Roofs of Paris, Van Gogh Museum
Vincent van Gogh and Toulouse-Lautrec
After his arrival in Paris in March 1886 Van Vincent van Gogh was introduced by his brother Theo in the circle of the impressionists,
and became a friend of Toulouse-Lautrec. They experimented with the style and techniques in the art of the impressionist and post impressionists.
"Vincent van Gogh was a good friend of Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec, whom he knew from the studio of the Paris artist Fernand Cormon where the two painters took lessons."
"The French painter Toulouse-Lautrec met Van Gogh, who was eleven years older than him, at Fernand Cormon’s studio, where they were both taking lessons.
They probably worked together intensively for a while, as the style and technique of their paintings in this period look very similar.
Toulouse-Lautrec sprang to his friend’s defence at the exhibition of ‘Les Vingt’ in Brussels in early 1890.
Van Gogh had submitted six paintings, which caused a furore during the opening.
Toulouse-Lautrec was so angry about some of the negative comments he heard about Vincent’s work that he almost got into a fight with another artist.
The two painters might have seen each other one last time a few months later, when Van Gogh left Saint-Rémy and travelled to Auvers-sur-Oise via Paris.
Little else is known about their friendship."
"Vincent met Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec (1864–1901) while studying at Fernand Cormon’s studio, and the two men became friends.
Though little is known about the friendship between Vincent and Toulouse-Lautrec, they must have worked together intensively in the early months of 1887
When Vincent left Paris in February 1888, he probably wrote to Toulouse-Lautrec once from Arles,
but as far as is known, Toulouse-Lautrec never replied, and there was no further correspondence. The friendship was by no means over, however.
In July 1890, when Vincent was living in Auvers-sur-Oise and paid a visit to his brother in Paris, Toulouse-Lautrec came to see him, and they had a good time together.
After Vincent's death, Toulouse-Lautrec wrote to Theo that Vincent had been a good friend of him."
"Relationship Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec with Vincent van Gogh
In February 1886, Vincent van Gogh left Antwerp for Paris, where his brother Theo lived. There he enrolled in Cormon's Atelier and became a friend of Toulouse-Lautrec.
For two years they painted and exhibited together, influencing each other's work, but in February 1888, on Lautrec’s advice, Van Gogh moved to the south of France.
They spent one more day together in July 1890, during Van Gogh's last visit to Paris.
It was through Emile Bernard that Van Gogh struck up a closer friendship with Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec and Louis Anquetin, whom he had also first met at Cormon's.
Van Gogh had paid regular visits to Toulouse-Lautrec's studio in Rue Caulincourt, Paris, just around the corner from the brothers Vincent and Theo's apartment, to show his work."
In Van Gogh's period in Paris (March 1886 – February 1888) the colors of his pallet are influenced by the impressionists.
He made there more than 200 paintings, among them sights in Paris, especially in Montmartre.
Much work by him was unmarketable and got lost or is missing.
Two "Vincents" Picture #1 and Picture #2
A Dutch businessman gathered paintings, etchings and drawings in the first half of the last century.
The collection consists of unsigned work of good quality. An exception are two paintings signed with "Vincent" bottom right.
The paintings are two market scenes in the clear spring colors of the impressionists.
The two signatures bottom right have very much resemblance with Vincent van Gogh's signature on the drawing Paysanne au bassin dans un jardin. September-October 1885.
To get more information about the two paintings, this website was published on the Internet 22 June 2006.
June 2006 printed A4 photographs of both "Vincents" and the link to the photos on this website were presented to the experts in the
Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, the
Musee d'Orsay in Paris and the
Kroller-Muller museum in Otterlo, Netherlands
with the question whether the two signed paintings are work by Vincent van Gogh.
The answer of the Van Gogh Museum July 17, 2006:
"We have carefully studied the material you have directed, and based on stylistic characteristics believe that this work can not become Vincent van Gogh attributed. "
July 2006 the VGM examined only the printed photos and did not examine the photos on this website.
( Click on the last 3 links to read the correspondence in 2006 and 2017/2018)
The following opinion was provided on December 2017, after being almost 12 years on the Internet, by
Janet G. Smith
Janet was the first to discover December 2017 on this website in the top left corner of Picture #2 another, on the first layer a for the greater part over painted signature:
"TL Vincent": a monogram of Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec and the signature Vincent.
Her sole opinion is the paintings may in fact be two collaborative paintings of Vincent and Toulouse-Lautrec in Paris, estimated date 1886:
"Picture #2: Review the sky top left for the artist's name is again written "Vincent".
Again in the sky to the left of "Vincent" signature appears to be "TL"
The works may in fact be a collaborative works of Vincent and Toulouse-Lautrec
I would estimate the date to be 1886 for both pictures.
This is my sole opinion." This_is_my_sole_opinion_2017-12-18.pdf
March 2018 Janet found also the specific letters of Vincent van Gogh where he wrote about the three paintings:
"The 3 pictures are of 1 specific event or location and Vincent van Gogh wrote about it in his letters.
I have found the specific letters.
I have just started to review Toulouse Lautrec's letters.
I have identified the scene in relation to the artist "Vincent van Gogh" and the location he painted in all 3 pictures-
your 2 paintings and the other 1 painting.
I am aware of a fourth painting that I reviewed almost 18 years ago that was not visibly signed,
but in a photograph you can read the artists name 'Vincent'.
It is study of one of the buildings Vincent Van Gogh admired in the same town=location.
There is no indication of any artist but Vincent Van Gogh in the picture.
The palette is identical for the buildings in all 4 paintings. "
Mail_from_Janet_Location that the artist painted in the 3 pictures_04_03_2018.pdf
See the monogram of Toulouse-Lautrec and the signature Vincent in the upper left corner of Picture #2
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail in a new window:
Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail negative in a new window:
Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail- negative
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail with filled in "TL Vincent" signatures in a new window:
Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail- with filled in signatures
See also the signature "V nc t" in the upper left corner of Picture #1 and largely over painted.
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail in a new window:
Picture #1, Contrast enhanced photo detail
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail with filled in "V nc t" signatures in a new window:
Picture #1, Contrast enhanced photo detail with partly filled in signature
X-ray photo's of the paintings, made 2018_01_06 by Arie van 't Riet https://www.x-rays.nl
You can see all X-ray photo's on: X-ray images of both paintings
The X-ray images combined to the complete paintings and scaled down to 1280x1024 pixels ::
Complete X-ray photo of Painting #1, 1280x1024 and Complete X-ray photot of Painting #2, 1280x1024
The X-ray images combined to the complete paintings are about 20 mB and 15000 x 13500 pixels
Complete X-ray photo of Painting #1, real size and Complete X-ray photo of Painting #2, real size
First-view UltraViolet photo's of the paintings, made 2018_06_09:
- UV picture #1,
- UV picture #2,
First-view InfraRed photo's of the paintings, made 2018_01_06:
- InfraRed picture #1,
- InfraRed picture #2,
- InfraRed picture #2 Detail.
The photo's dated 2006 are made again in 2018.
see: New photo's made 2018_jan_06
see: High Resolution photo's made 2018_june_09
The photos from 2018 without the frame: Picture-2 gave a surprise:
The combination "TL Vincent" is somewhat smaller also on the first layer in the upper left corner of picture#2 under the frame !
So two times "TL Vincent" on the first layer under the blue sky.
Janet asked to contact the Musee d'Orsay and the Van Gogh Museum with the new information
- The Kröller-Müller Museum has not the required expertise and referred to the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.
- The Musee d'Orsay in Paris stopped appraisal of paintings and referred to
VAN GOGH EXPERTS, 33 West 19th Street, 4th floor New York City, NY 10011 USA:
The answer of VAN GOGH EXPERTS was 17 Jan 2018 :
"Yes, we agree the paintings have the potential to be by Vincent Van Gogh.
Let us know if you want us to authenticate them. Yours sincerely, Mark Winter."
- 2 Feb. 2018, the Van Gogh Museum refused to answer the question whether they agreed with Janet's opinion,
but repeated their answer of 17 juli 2006.
The subfolders of this homepage are:
- The 6 subfolders with Photo's Picture #1 and Picture #2,:
- Photo's Made 2006_06_07,
- Photo's made 2018_01_06,
- Photo's HighRes_6000x4000 made 2018_06_09,
- X-ray photo's made 2018_01_06,
- First-view UltraViolet photo's of the paintings, made 2018_06_09.
- First-view InfraRed photo's of the paintings, made 2018_01_06.
- The pictures on this homepage,
- Luisa's Impressionist Painting#3.
- Photo's Luisa's Impressionist Painting#3.
Picture#1, Oil on canvas, 64 x 53 cm , "Vincent" signature in the right-lower corner and its "Vincent" signature in the left-upper corner on the first layer
Picture#1, 64x53 cm 2370x1900 pix Photo made Jan 2018.
Picture#1 64x53 cm 4300x3600 pix HighRes Photo made June 2018
Picture#2, Oil on canvas, 64 x 53 cm , "Vincent" signature in the right-lower corner and its "TL Vincent" signatures in the left-upper corner on the first layer
Picture#2, 64x53 cm 2353x1971 pix Photo made Jan 2018.
Picture#2 64x53 cm 4300x3600 pix HighRes Photo made June 2018
The third painting, Luisa's Impressionistic Painting, Picture #3
Luisa, living in Venezuela, bought a painting a few years ago in Caracas,
also a market scene, in the clear spring colors of the French impressionists.
Nobody, including the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam in 2011, saw the "TL" monogram at the top left and could tell who painted it.
March 2017 Luisa found this website and saw the similarity of her painting with the two "Vincents" and asked me if her painting was made by the same painter as the two "Vincents".
Luisa's impressionist painting has been standing since Feb. 2018 also on this website and it also has the "TL" monogram of Toulouse-Lautrec in the top left corner.
Janet G. Smith's opinion and sole opinion is that also this painting is the collaborative work of two artists, Vincent van Gogh and Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec.
The date is 1886.
"From: janet g. smith
Date: Feb 10, 2018 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: Nuevas iniciales
Thank you for the additional information about your family picture, Market Scene.
It is my personal opinion and sole opinion that your picture is the work of two artists,
Vincent van Gogh and Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. The date is 1886.
The upper left is where the signature and monogram appear.
Please keep the picture safe.
Best regards, Janet
Janet G. Smith
Final conclusion by Janet G. Smith, 2 Dec 2018
Luisa's Painting, Picture#3, Oil on canvas. 100x73 cm , "TL" signature in the left-upper corner and its UV-IMAGE "TL + Vincent" signatures, in the left-upper corner.
Picture#3 100x73 cm 2370x1786 pix
Picture#3 100x73 cm 4251x3203 pix HighRes
The painting was examined in 2011 by the Laboratorio Scientifico del MUSEO D’ARTE E SCIENZA. Milan.
See: Results of scientific tests by the Laboratorio Scientifico del MUSEO D'ARTE E SCIENZA. Milan. 09/06/2011
The Laboratorio Scientifico dated the painting's oldest coat of paint as being made in the second half of the 19th century,
but the characteristics of the colors painted afterwards refer to the first decades and the middle of the 20th century.
The Laboratorio Scientifico del MUSEO D'ARTE E SCIENZA in Milan could not establish the identity of the maker, nor did it recognize the "TL" monogram at the top left.
This painting was probably edited around 1914 by Gustav Prucha (1875-1952) while he was in the Netherlands and used by him as an example for a number of market scenes in the Netherlands.
The people on the market wear clogs there!
The fourth panting, View of the roofs of Paris, Picture #4
Vincent van Gogh, summer late 1886, View of the roofs of Paris 2048x1517 pix Amsterdam, Van Gogh Museum, 72.5x54 cm
Van Gogh's "Summer late 1886, View of the roofs of Paris". It hangs in the VGM as a work by Vincent van Gogh, but it is not signed;
it does have a Toulouse-Lautrec monogram "TL II" on the base layer in the top left corner.
The same "TL II" Monogram as on Picture#2 an on Picture#3 in the upper left corner.
On 20-02-2020 to prof. Dr. J.L. van Tilborgh proposed to investigate this.
Vincent van Gogh's signatures
Signature Picture #1,
Signature Paysanne au bassin dans un jardin-September-October 1885
Signature Picture #2
Paysanne au bassin dans un jardin. Vincent Van Gogh. September-October 1885. Black crayon, pen, brush and black and sepia ink and pencil on paper, signed 'Vincent' on the lower right, 33x26.4 cm, 2614x3200 pix.
Signature van Vincent van Gogh Parijs, 1886 Vue sur Paris depuis Montmartre
Other paintings by Vincent van Gogh in Parijs in 1886
Vincent van Gogh Paris, 1886, Pont du carrousel and the Louvre 2048x1454 pix Kopenhagen, Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek, 44x31 cm
Vincent van Gogh Paris, June-July 1886, Lane at the Jardin du Luxembourg 1756x982 pix Williamstown, Mass.: Sterling and Francine Clark Art Institute, 27.5x46.0 cm
Vincent van Gogh, Paris 1886, View on Paris from Montmartre 2028x1267 pix Basel, Kunstmuseum, 42.0×26.3 cm
The third painting, Luisa's Impressionistic Painting, Picture # 3 is for sale, it is located in California.
Information about this project : HansLeibbrandt@onsbrabantnet.nl